ノート:クリ属

編集合戦になっているようですが、争点は「シナグリ」か「チュウゴクグリ」かだと思われます。この件について私は何ら知識を持たないのですが、実際の所どうなのでしょうか？　一方しか言わないのか、それともどちらも言うのか、そもそも同じ物を指しているのか。そういったことについて編集されている方々に教えていただければありがたいです。「○○ではこう表記」しているなど。tanuki_Z 2004年10月3日 (日) 09:37 (UTC)

平凡社の百科事典ではシナグリになっています。チュウゴクグリの表記は有りません。あと中国原産の栗が米国産で複数存在します。Miketsukunibito 2004年10月3日 (日) 09:40 (UTC)

Castanea mollissimaが学名で和名は制定時期不明でシナグリ、一般にはチュウゴクグリほぼ同数、甘栗が圧倒的（ただし商品名と思われている）。和名の制定方法には疑問がありますが、ルールとなっているならばこれにも適用すべきかも、一般名なら甘栗（単に商品名ではなく別種だと書く）、学名上も中国グリにというのがなくもなさそうなので併記でも、などが考えられます。[[利用者:Johncapistrano|johncapistrano]] 2004年10月3日 (日) 10:07 (UTC)

ボウシアマグリという和名もあるようですね。[1]Snow steed 2004年10月3日 (日) 10:09 (UTC)

「シナ」は差別語です東日本国際 2004年10月3日 (日) 10:15 (UTC)

調べずに「「シナ」は差別語です」を理由に種名を変更するの？・・Miketsukunibito 2004年10月3日 (日) 10:55 (UTC)

ボウシアマグリは傍士市でシナグリを栽培選別したものですね。Miketsukunibito 2004年10月3日 (日) 11:11 (UTC)

検索によれば「シナグリ」よりも「チュウゴクグリ」が多いようです。すでに「チュウゴクグリ」が根付いているのに、「シナグリ」という差別的な呼称にこだわる必要はないでしょう。「甘栗」が一番よいとは思いますが。東日本国際 2004年10月3日 (日) 11:49 (UTC)

品種ではシナグリですよ。Miketsukunibito 2004年10月3日 (日) 11:56 (UTC)

呼称にはこだわる必要があるでしょう。百科辞典なのだから正しい呼称にすべき。理由になってない理由で表記を勝手に変えるのは正しい姿勢ではないと思うのですが。--KZY 2004年10月3日 (日) 12:13 (UTC)

和名なんてのは、学名と違って、しばしば変更されるものです。何が「正しい呼称」かも正式に決まっているのでしょうか？東日本国際 2004年10月3日 (日) 13:09 (UTC)

和名として辞典に「チュウゴクグリ」って載っていますか？シナグリなら載っていますが？Miketsukunibito 2004年10月3日 (日) 13:19 (UTC)

一般名として「チュウゴクグリ」もしばしば利用されているのは事実なようですが和名はあくまで「シナグリ」なのでは？「チュウゴクグリ」は通称でしょう？　※先に書いた「正しい呼称」は「正式な呼称」の意味で書いたことを補足しておきます。--KZY 2004年10月3日 (日) 13:47 (UTC)

変更されるものだからと言うのは理由になってません。変更されてから表記を変えてください。それとGoogleではチュウゴクグリが45件、シナグリが37件ですから多いとは言いがたいでしょう。併記が良いと思いますが。らりた 2004年10月3日 (日) 13:55 (UTC)

私の場合は、シナグリ（通称アマグリ、チュウゴクグリ）の表記が妥当ではと思います。Miketsukunibito 2004年10月3日 (日) 14:05 (UTC)

同意です。通称併記が妥当なところだと思います。Googleではチュウゴクグリがちょっとだけ多い数値で出ますが、シナグリの別名としてチュウゴクグリを併記しているサイトもチュウゴクグリにカウントされているので、主たる表記で比較すれば差が縮まるはずです。--KZY 2004年10月4日 (月) 03:43 (UTC)

ちょっと調べてみたのですが、チュウゴクグリ、アマグリは産地で分けているみたいです。日本で栽培すればアマグリ、韓国で栽培すればチョウセングリ、中国で栽培すればチュウゴクグリという感じの様です。これらを総じてシナグリと言うようです。原木は同じでも品種改良が行われている為、種は違うようです。チュウゴクグリで括ると別種の中国産（栽培地は米国）の栗も存在しますので種としては異常な記しかたになるようです。Miketsukunibito 2004年10月4日 (月) 04:25 (UTC)

参考までに、「支那」は中国ではなく地域を指します。この為、中国以外の場所も含まれるそうです。ちなみに「支那」という言葉を広めたのは泰の始皇帝。泰の領域を支那と呼んだそうです。辞典では支那事変を日中戦争に変えてあっても、栗などの品名は変えていない様です。中国側から広めた古い言葉が差別語と言えるでしょうか？Miketsukunibito 2004年10月3日 (日) 11:47 (UTC)

上記はすべてでたらめです。初歩的な知識すら持たないようではお話になりません。東日本国際 2004年10月3日 (日) 11:50 (UTC)

上記は平凡社の百科事典に記載されています。でたらめじゃありません！！Miketsukunibito 2004年10月3日 (日) 11:52 (UTC)

どうやら平凡社に問題がありますね。「支那」の語源はhttp://kyoto.cool.ne.jp/jiangbo/china/edu/edu004.htm に載っているので学習してください。東日本国際 2004年10月3日 (日) 12:00 (UTC)

物の支那と政治的な支那は別物です。支那と言う言葉が中国と戦争するより遥か以前に存在し、そのころ付けられた名前が何故いけないのですか？政治とは関係ないでしょう？Miketsukunibito 2004年10月3日 (日) 12:04 (UTC)

参考までに支那と付く物・・シナモズク、シナガキ、シナブタ、シナントロプスペキネンシス（北京原人）、シナナシ、シナガク等いっぱいあります。栗だけではないですよMiketsukunibito 2004年10月3日 (日) 12:13 (UTC)

「魏志倭人伝」や「倭刀」もあらためるのか？　まったく馬鹿馬鹿しいにも程がある。222.12.152.71 2004年10月3日 (日) 12:59 (UTC)

とりあえず現状をまとめてみると、「シナグリ」と「チュウゴクグリ」は全く同一の概念ではない。ただし「チュウゴクグリ」は「シナグリ」の一部なので「シナグリ」のことを「チュウゴクグリ」と表記することもある。「シナグリ」には他にも「チョウセングリ」「アマグリ」が含まれる。ということでしょうか？　であるのならば「シナグリ（アマグリ、チュウゴクグリ、チョウセングリ）」とするのが良いのでしょうか。

ちなみに、「シナ」が差別語として使われることは確かにありますから、もともとは差別語でないから使っても構わないとはすぐにならないだろうと思います。ただウィキペディアは現在通用しているものを解説することを目的としていますので、「シナグリ」という語が差別感情を伴わず現在もひろく使われているのなら「シナ」の語が差別語かどうかを問わず「シナグリ」の語自体は使う必要はあるだろうと考えます。

最後に、Miketsukunibitoさんはこのページの保護期間中にシナグリ、チュウゴクグリを立てられたようですが今後このようなことはできる限りやめください。保護をかけてある理由はその主題について話し合いの必要があるからなので、保護がかかっていない項目を保護の理由となっている主題で編集することは誠実な態度とはいえません。これはある記事中で「東シナ海」を「東中国海」と書きかえ、そのために編集合戦・保護となったのにまた別の記事で同じ編集をすることとあまり違いはありませんから。

東日本国際さんが短期ブロック解除後再びこちらで意見を述べられるかもしれませんので保護はもうしばらく続けます。tanuki_Z 2004年10月6日 (水) 03:42 (UTC)

Tanuki Zさん申し訳ありません。私としてはシナグリと異なる中国産の品種があるため、「シナグリ（アマグリ、チュウゴクグリの一部、チョウセングリ）」の表記が良いと考えています。氏の「上記はすべてでたらめです。」に対しこれでは会話が成立しない。シナグリ、チュウゴクグリを立て、中身をしっかり書いて皆さんの判断を仰いだ方が良いのではと思い記しました。ちょと怒りにまかせたというのは歪めませんです。この点は反省しています。Miketsukunibito 2004年10月6日 (水) 12:54 (UTC)

東日本国際さんがブロック解除後もこちらでは異議を唱えられていないように見えるので保護を解除しました。再び編集合戦が起こった場合には再び保護をかけます。tanuki_Z 2004年10月8日 (金) 01:19 (UTC)

Informations about Asian chestnuts

In Europe there are very few, hard to find, bad information about Asian chestnuts.

I would be content if somebody can give me some information, refered to Japan, about this fabulous tree. I'm mostly interested to the following points:

• meaning of chestnuts in the Japanese society;
  
• citations, sayings, anecdotes;
  
• chestnuts in art and literature;
  
• meaning of chestnuts in history;
  
• culinary utilisations;
  
• secondary products (ex. Honey);
  
• ...

and

• the most used variety of Asian chestnuts and their quality and utilisations;
  
• conservation methods of chestnuts;
  
• grafting and pruning of chestnut trees;
  
• ...

Continent	Country	Species	Species
Asia	Japan	Castanea crenata
	China	Castanea henryi	Castanea mollissima
		Castanea seguinii	Castanea davidii
Europe		Castanea sativa
America	USA	Castanea dentata	Castanea ashei
		Castanea alnifolia	Castanea floridana
		Castanea pumila	Castanea ozarkensis
		Castanea paucispina

A possible classification could be as in the table right.

If you want, you can respond, or ask me questions about European chestnut, here, on this page, or on my discussion page (利用者‐会話:Ticines を編集中)

Thanks!

Ticines, Maggia, Monday 10 January 2005

——————

Hello, Ticines!

As you know, the name Kuri means both the plant(the tree) and the nut(the marron) of the plant. But usually the major image of the word is that of the nuts, which we love to eat. We have an adverb or an adjective 「くりくり」 kuri-kuri, but obviously that word has nothing to do with 'kuri', the chestnuts.

• A chestnut is typical food of fall for us. In fall, we often eat 「栗ご飯」 kuri go-han, rice boiled with chestnuts. On the other hand, 「天津甘栗」 Ten-shin ama-guri, or Chinese roasted chestnuts, are seen all through the year. Some Japanese sweets or cakes have chestnuts in them. 「栗羊羹」 Kuri-yohkan is one of the most popular sweets with chestnuts. That is one of the best sellers of the famous (high-grade!) Japanese sweets shop, Tora-ya. Western sweets, like marrons glaces and Mont Blanc cakes(from your country, isn't it?), are also popular.

• There is no secondary meaning about the word 「くり（栗）」 kuri, I think. The chestnuts with their burs are called 「いが栗」 iga-guri. Iga means the bur. The word iga-guri is sometimes (though not often) used to liken hedgehoggy person/attitude.

• The only well-known saying about chestnuts is 「桃栗3年、柿8年」 ( Momo kuri san-nen, kaki hachi-nen ).　That means, the peach trees and the chestnut trees need three years to grow up to have their fruits or nuts and eight years are needed for the persimmon trees as well.

• Very old story 「猿蟹合戦」 (Saru kani gassen) is also well-known. This tale is about the revenge to a cunning monkey which cheated and injured (or killed) a little honest crab. The revenge is made by several trivial things and creatures; a chestnut, a bee, a piece of dung, a big mortar and so on.

• We eat 「栗きんとん」 kuri-kinton as a part of 「お節（料理）」 osechi (ryori), which is the special foods packaged for the New Years Days. Kinton is sweet paste mainly made from sweet potatoes and kuri-kinton has marrons of chestnut in it. By the way, the name Clinton is very similar to kuri kinton in our language:-).
  「かち栗」 Kachi-guri is the dried marron of the chestnut. We rarely see this food today, but it used to be thought to be a lucky food.

• As the chestnuts remind us of the particular season easily, some haiku poets have made haikus about chestnuts. None of them is well-known, while we have a famous haiku about 「柿」 kaki or a persimmon, which is also thought to be a symbol of fall.

• 「栗毛」 Kurige means the horses' color like maroon (and also the horses of the color). 「東海道中膝栗毛」 Tohkaido-chu hiza-kurige is one of the most famous novels written in the Tokugawa period. This work is a kind of a fictional travel sketch and the words Hiza-kurige means that the two main characters of the story used their hiza, or knees, as their kurige horse --- in short, they walked almost all the way (they never had a horse!).
  「栗色」 Kuri-iro, the maroon color, is light brown color of dyed hair.

Inukawa 2005年1月10日 (月) 14:31 (UTC)

• note: 材としてのクリ chestnut as wood or a tree;
  植物図鑑, 森の大百科事典, 木材図鑑, 木材図鑑2, クリ材, クリ普請の魅力, クリ材の特徴と用途, クリ材の特徴, 山下街道のクリ巨木, 三内丸山遺跡のクリ, 縄文時代（北海道）, 縄文・真脇遺跡, 屋根材としてのクリ
  Inukawa 2005年1月11日 (火) 06:52 (UTC)

• Hello Ticines, again!
  Well, now I'm afraid you'd like information about chestnut trees mainly, not chestnuts as food. In fact, I knew very little about the chesunut trees, but I've learned a lot about chestnut wood and chestnut trees in the web pages above (though my books didn't help me much). Now I agree that the chestnut is very interesting and important tree. Shall I digest the information I've found?
  To say about the trees, I had forgot to tell you that we have a very popular song for children named 「 おおきなくりのきのしたで」 Ohkina kuri-no ki-no shita-de, or 'Under the Big Chestnut Tree'. Inukawa 2005年1月11日 (火) 08:13 (UTC)

——————

Thank you for your interest and for your very useful information!

• difference between chestnut and marron

a. Marroni
b. Torcioni bianchi
c. Torcioni neri
d. Verdese
e. Montan]] The fruit is generally defined as chestnut; marrons are some cultivated varieties of European chestnut. In this sense the term marron is not correct in reference to Japanese chestnut. The separation chestnuts/marrons is a little complicated; criterions of differentiation between marrons and common chestnuts are rather commercial than botanical, and are defined differently from Country to Country.

«In Frankreich sind «marrons» diejenigen Kastanien, deren Früchte höchstens 12% Innenhaut-Einschlüsse aufweisen. In Italien und der Südschweiz gilt eine etwas differenziertere Marroni-Definition: Marroni sind grosse Früchte (weniger als 80 bis 85 Stück pro Kilo); eine stachelige Hülle enthält nie mehr als 3 Früchte, oft weniger; die Früchte sind ellipsenförmig; die Aussenhaut ist hell und von augenfälligen, dunkleren Rippen durchzogen; die Früchte haben eine allgemein feine Aussen- und Innenhaut; die Innenhaut ist leicht entfernbar (ohne Eindringen ins Fleisch); das Fruchtfleisch ist fest und schmeckt süss.»^*

^*WSL (Forschungsanstalt für Wald, Schnee und Landschaft Birmensdorf)

• culinary uses

I would be interested to know which are (or were) the utilisations of dried chestnuts (Kachi-guri), if somebody know something about this subject.

In fall, when chestnuts fall, many people go to pick them. Chestnuts are not easily conserved. For that reason people found, in course of history, different conservation methods.

In some region of Europe, for longer conservation, it was custom to grind dried chestnuts. The chestnut flour obtained was used to make chestnut bread (fiascia:¹), a sort of polenta, and was used as ingredient of many other recipes.

The tradition is continued in few villages where in fall school children go to pick chestnuts in the forest. Then they put them in a special stone house (gr๠or metato¹) where chestnut are dried up. After this they put the dried chestnuts, when they are still hot, in a hemp sack and beat them on a wood trunk to peel the chestnuts! To separate chestnuts from their skins they use a sieve (vall¹). The peeled chestnut are then brought to water mill of the village (See also grà)

¹local dialect of southern Switzerland

I'm wondering if similar customs are found also in Asia?

Does somebody now how chestnuts get conserved in Asia?

Generally, in the region where I live, the most popular culinary uses are roasted chestnuts, see: caldarroste, (Italian caldarroste, German heisse Maroni) or boiled chestnuts (Italian castagne lesse).

Very appreciated is also a delicious sweet called vermicelles (a sort of chestnut purée); but there are many other possible culinary examples.

• • bread of poors

What impresses, and give an idea of the importance of chestnut in the past of Europe, are the names given to it. Albero del pane² 'tree of bread', albero della sopravvivenza² 'tree of surviving', or the most impressive ul arbur³ which means simply 'tree'.

²Italian

³local dialect of southern Switzerland

The chestnut(fruit) is also called pane dei poveri 'bread of poor'.

Was Kachi-guri maybe a food that nourished people in time of famine? Is it maybe considered a lucky-food for that reason?

Marrons glacés and Mont Blanc cakes are not from Switzerland; I don't know exactly their origin; but I presume that they are both from France.

• some questions about terminology

Does kuri and kuri-kuri have common origins?

Is Iga-guri referenced to bur and fruit, or only to the bur?

Isn't iga-guri also the name for common hedgehog (animal)?

Riccio is the Italian word for the chestnut bur and is also the name of common hedgehog (animal).

• considerations

The general definition of chestnut and marrons is in German; it was too difficult for me to make a translation to English.

Examples are referred to local customs; terms and customs differ according to region! Considering the vastness of the argument it's absolutely impossible to talk over all aspects of European chestnut. I made one example of conservation, it's not the only possible.

Unfortunately I can't read in Japanese (thank you anyway for the links).

Ticines, Maggia, 12 January 2005

——————

Hello Inukawa.

Sorry, I forgot to answer to your question. Sure, if it doesn’t cost you to much energy to translate information from Japanese to English, I would be content to obtain some information from the sites (links).

Thank you!

Ticines, 13 January 2005

——————

Hello Ticines.

• MARRON: Thank you for your explanation for the difference between the chestnut and the marron. It is very helpful as my dictionaries don't give much information about the difference. This page of Wikipedia (the article page, not the note page) tells that the word 'marron' essentially means 「マロニエ」 maronie, Aesculus hippocastanum, the 'Horse chesnut' in English, not the chestnut. But I don't know if that is correct or not. The word maron is now used as one of denizens or exotic words in Japan and isn't distinguished from the word kuri, which means a chestnut, an European one or not.

• DRIED CHESTNUTS IN EUROPE: The customs about chestnuts in Switzerland are very interesting! I also enjoyed the pictures in the linked site.

• CHESTNUT PICKING: Old Japanese people also went to pick chestnuts in fall. That is 「栗拾い」 kuri-hiroi, chestmut picking. Today some people still go to pick chestnuts, and they usually eat their crops up in several days. People like both roasted chestnuts and boiled ones.

• CHINESE BOILED CHESTNUTS: Chinese boiled chestnuts are very popular and we can buy them all through the year, though they are not one of our traditional foods. They are smaller, sweeter and easier to peel than Japanese chestnuts. Recently they started to sell Itarian boiled chestnuts, but it is still hard to find them in Japan.

• KACHI-GURI: Kachi-guri is a kind of conservable foods. You can see kachi-guri here and here. In Japan, chestnuts, including kachi-guri, have been eaten since prehistoric times. The prehistoric stone age of Japan is called 「縄文時代」, Jomon period. The most important foods of Jomon people were the chestnuts and the acorns. Some Johmon cookies have been discovered, but I'm not sure they were made from chestnut flour or acorn flour. As the specific remedy for the kidney diseases, they used kachi-guri tea. But I don't think the Japanese people, except stone-age people like Jomons, made kachi-guri flour. Anyway, it is known that kachi-guri actually nourished people in time of famine, as you supposed.

• WHY A KACHI-GURI IS LUCKY?: The word kachi-guri means 'the beaten chestnut'. In fact, they beat the nuts to peal them, after drying and roasting them. They usually use a wooden mortar and a mallet or a pestle. As a pun, the word kachi-guri can be taken as 'the winning chestnuts'. Yes, just a pun! So people, especially samurais or the warrior class, liked this food. Kachi-guri also used to be an important part of osechi ryohri, the New Year foods. This pun seems to be rather funny since the beaten one can never win in English!

• KURI AND KURI-KURI: Some students suppose kuri and kuri-kuri have common origins and some don't. I don't know which is correct.
  The first supposition is that the word kuri comes from kuro, which means black. But kuro is thought to be an external word -- its origin is kara, an Korean word. So kuro seems to be a newer word than kuri.
  The second supposition is that both kuri and kuri-kuri come from another old word kuru, which meant 'round', 'around' or 'turn'. We have a great variety of similar words, like kuru-kuru, guru-guru, koro-koro, kiri-kiri, kururi, etc., which have meanings like 'round' or 'around'. Besides we call chestnuts 「くるみ」 kurumi and mi means a nut.
  The third supposition is that the origin of kuri is the Korean word Kul which also means the chestnut. We Japanese usually don't tell 'L' from 'R' and every consonant except 'N' has a vowel with it in our language. So Kul could be changed into kuri when the word came to our country over the sea.

• IGA-GURI: Iga-guri means the hole body; the chestnuts and the bur on them. Iga means a bur, and guri is originally kuri, chestnuts.

• HEDGEHOGS: The hedgehog is one of the exotic animals for us, Japanese. Our ancestors knew the animal only by the books from China. Your hedgehog picture happens to be one from my web site about hedgehogs (Did you know:-)? Here is the entrance). This picture was drawn for a kind of Encyclopedia in Tokugawa period and I'm sure the artist had never seen a real hedgehog. It is almost impossible to relate the old word iga to the hedgehogs.

• ANOTHER SAYING: We have another saying 「火中の栗を拾う」 Kachu-no kuri-o hirou, but it is just a translation from a Western saying, 'pull a person's chestnuts out of the fire', which comes from a feeble poem by La Fontaine.

• TREES: Maybe I'll tell about the tree or the wood another time.

• Note for Myself; 捨てる所なし, 救荒食品, レシピ, 縄文カチグリ, 戦国の搗栗, 篩栗
  Thank you, again! Inukawa 2005年1月17日 (月) 15:13 (UTC)

——————

Your new information are very interesting. I see there are similarities in uses of chestnuts between Europe and Japan.

• horse-chestnut

The horse-chestnut Aésculus hippocástanum belongs to the family of Hippocástanaceae.

Instead the chestnut genus Castanea belongs to the family of Fagaceae in which there are currently nine genus: Fagus, Castanea, Castanopsis, Chrysolepis, Colombobalanus, Formanodendron, Lithocarpus, Quercus, and Trigonobalanus.

The two plants, except certain aesthetic similarities of the fruit, are not related, and they do not have great similitude, neither from botanical nor from aesthetic point of view. Besides, the fruit of horse chestnut is considered toxic according to some sources. On Flora Helvetica instead, toxicity is not indicated. Anyway, it isn't edible.

The name Aesculus (from esca, food) was applied originally to a species of oak, which according to Pliny, was highly prized for its acorns, but how it came to be transferred to the Horse Chestnut is very uncertain; perhaps, as Loudon suggests, it was given ironically, because its nuts bear a great resemblance, externally, to those of the Sweet Chestnut, but are unfit for food.^*

^{*a Modern Herbal, Mrs. M. Grieve}

Observing the name, in many languages is contained the word horse (lat. hippo-, ital. ippo-, deut. Ross-, engl. horse).

This names derives from the fact that in past it was thought that the fruits cured diseases of the horse. Nowadays medicines, based on an substance contained in the fruit, are produced to treat vascular diseases and other uneasiness. Others parts of plant were used for remedies; but I don’t know for which.

I don’t know the term maronie; similar terms, who denotes some variety of European chestnut fruit, but who often denotes (erroneously) also the chestnut fruit in general, are the Italian marroni, the French marrón and the German maronen, maroni. Note that the French name for horse chestnut is marronier.

Note: Aésculus hippocástanum is the only species in the family of Hippocástanaceae in Switzerland.

• dried chestnuts

Here, in some places, can be bought dried chestnuts (ital. castagne essiccate) or the flour of dried chestnuts (ital. farina di castagne), identical both, in the aspect, to those on the photos of the web sites you linked above (*, *. ). In such way, the dried chestnuts, can be conserved during the entire wintertime and, according to the requirement, they can be immersed in water and then boiled. The flour can be used for many purposes.

• hedgehog

I didn’t know that the hedgehog is not an endemic species of Japan. It’s strange that there isn’t also a Hedgehog species of Japan; Hedgehog have an huge capacity of adaptation (there also exists species adapted to the desert!).

I had the fortune to observe a hedgehog family with their puppy for a long period; they came out every evening, always at dusk, just behind my house.

• hedgehog image

By chance I did find it on a Japanese web site (*). And from the address name it seams to be yours! Sorry, I hope I didn’t break copyrights. Is it perhaps better to erase this image from here?

Thank you!

Ticines, 19 January 2005

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• Maronie

The Japanese word maronie seems to come from 'Marronnier', a French word which means the Horse Chestnut. The article of this web page tells that the French name 'marronnier' comes from 'marron'. That must be true, and thanks to your information, now I'm sure the writer of the article in this page of Wikipedia made a mistake. The fruit, seen here, looks a little like a marron.

• the hedgehogs

Today some people live with their hedgehogs in Japan. Hedgehogs are exotic animals but we can buy them at the pet shops. Most of them are the African pigmy hedgehogs and some are European common hedgehogs. Accidentary, some common hedgehogs have been imigrated and naturalized in some regions. So, obviously, the common hedgehogs have the ability to survive in the ecolocical environment in Japan, while the desert hedgehogs don't seem to fit for this land, as they don't have the habit of hibernation.

Some fossils of hedgehogs have been discovered in Japan. It seems that there were hedgehogs here in Japan thousands years ago, but later they died out for some reason.

• the hedgehog image

It is a pleasant thing for me to see an image, taken from my site, in a quite different place. The original picture was drawn for a book named Kunmoh-zui, published in 1666. I have no idea who has the copyright, so please don't care about that.

Thank you! Inukawa, 22 January 2005

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• 書き忘れたこと

「クリ」という言葉が、日本語ではときに駄洒落のネタになること。万葉集、山上憶良の長歌（瓜食めば　子ども思ほゆ　栗食めば　まして偲ばゆ……）。橋の欄干の擬宝珠（ぎぼし）の形は，クリを模したものではないこと。Inukawa 2005年3月10日 (木) 18:17 (UTC)

分割の提案

現在、本項目ではクリ属の植物およびその種子の総称である「クリ」とクリ属の中の種の一つである「ニホングリ」に関する情報が混在しており、言語間リンクが混乱しています。本項目の内容からニホングリに関する記述を分割し、クリ属をクリのリダイレクトページとすることを提案いたします。--Nipisiquit 2007年8月24日 (金) 13:57 (UTC)

異論がありませんでしたので、分割を行いました。「料理」と「クリをモチーフにしたキャラクター」に関する節はここに残すことにしました。--Nipisiquit 2007年9月1日 (土) 18:59 (UTC)

項目名

この内容でしたら、クリ属に改名する方が良いと思います。んで、ニホングリの項目名をクリにすると良いのではないかと。異論がなければやります。--Ｋｓ 2007年11月7日 (水) 12:18 (UTC)

賛成します。--Nipisiquit 2007年11月7日 (水) 21:13 (UTC)

ニホングリからクリへの改名について、Wikipedia:改名提案・Wikipedia:移動依頼出しました。 --鵺草 2012年2月4日 (土) 08:48 (UTC)